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Tris
Member
This seems to be very good news. Can anyone tell us whether this version now mirrors DNS and does away with the whole purge cache "golden rule" issue? Also does it now handle numbers so that you can dictate numbers as words or numerals? In other words do we now have DNS for Mac or are we still stuck with the basic structure of Mac Dictate?
Paul
Tris
Member
Also, does anyone know when the users manual will be available for download?
JQ
Member
Go under the Help menu in the Dictate 2.0 application. Click on the "User Manual" and Preview will open the new 186 page user manual.
jayg
Member
Tris - Thanks for your question. As a usage rule for Dragon Dictate for Mac, outside of TextEdit and Dictate's Note Pad you shouldn't mix keyboard/mouse and voice.
The User Manual is under the Help menu in Dragon Dictate 2.0.
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macbythesea
Member
Are you kidding? I talked to customer service last week and was told that I definitely would be able to mix keyboard/mouse, and voice with this new version. So this is just a repackaged MacSpeech product? I can't tell you how disappointing that is. I am a neuropsychologist with a disabled arm and have to write huge reports all the time. It's crucial to be able to cruise around with mouse/keyboard, and voice, like in DNS. I was really looking forward to finally having the real Dragon on a Mac. For the way I work, having to navigate a document solely by voice is useless, and renders the software only a useful toy, at best, for short letters and memos.
macbythesea
Member
"The Golden Rule of MacSpeech Dictate: When you’re working with text, don’t mix your voice with your hands." Why even come out with a new version when this is still the case? It's the same mistake MacSpeech made--putting the cart before the horse. They came out with expensive medical and legal versions when the basic core structure/usability of the program was still flawed. PLEASE, come out with DNS for Mac, the real DNS.
nom
Member
I was just about to enter my credit card details, then thought I should check here first. Glad I did, credit card has been put away. :(
I'll wait a little longer and see if there is anything else about the upgrade to justify the pric.
mensrea
Member
'Also does it now handle numbers so that you can dictate numbers as words or numerals?'
You didn't respond this part of the inquiry. Unfortunately, it does not seem that you can dictate numbers as words. I am a lawyer, I often want to be able to spell out, in words, 'one thousand dollars' and place the numerals in parentheses. This is apparently NOT POSSIBLE on the Mac. It is extremely irritating to not be able to do this, especially since it is so effortless on my PC, or on my Mac using parallels for that matter.
I can't say that I entirely regret spending $50 on the upgrade; however, it is quite disappointing to find that we still don't have a full/proper Dragon NaturallySpeaking experience on OS X yet.
Enough with half measures folks, we don't need this crippled nonsense. Nor do we need a new/different vocabulary. “ALL CAPS THAT” should function exactly the same on my PC and my Mac. Nor can I comprehend why I have to use a USB microphone on my Mac when there is no such requirement on my PC. Moreover, this whole cache thing is obnoxious in the extreme! FIX THAT.
Also, why on Earth do I have to spend time training my profile on my Mac when I have to do no such thing any longer on my PC, or iPhone, or iPad?! It's absurd!
Like many others, I've been using Dragon NaturallySpeaking for a very long time -- probably much longer than most. In fact, I've been using the program since it was first launched in the 90's and branded AOL. Since the beginning, you've been telling us how dictating to a computer is not like talking to a person, because they don't have context knowledge and can't understand what's being spoken– well, it's been a decade, I think you guys have taken the current technology about as far as you can, when are you going to teach these computers to understand context? What's taking so long? Get on with it!
In the meantime, please just give us a fully functional port of Dragon NaturallySpeaking on the Mac. It is not a selling point (as is clearly presupposed in your promotional materials) that this isn't just a port over, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT!
So, while this is a dramatic improvement over the utterly unusable MacSpeech, it still woefully inadequate compared to Dragon NaturallySpeaking. There is little redeemable regarding the work done by the MacSpeech team. Don't try to "build on" their nonsense, erase it!
macbythesea
Member
I couldn't agree more with mensrea--very well put.
In addition to the hopefulness Nuance created with new packaging and a new name, the telephone customer support employee assured me that I could mix my voice with my hands with this upgrade.
I generally work with 10-15 page docs, and begin with a previously written doc. I open it, <save as> in another name, and then go to town changing all the data in the tables, and editing the text/narrative to correspond with the new data. I jump around from page 1, to page 15, then back to page 7, etc., continually. The cache commands just don't cut it for the way I work.
afdsma
Member
Thanks to everyone who has commented on the Nuance Mac - I will hold onto my check.
I called Nuance tech support at 8:00 am and was told I would receive an email within the hour - still waiting and now 16:30
macbythesea
Member
afdsma, did you get a reply?
Bakari
Member
I have written this several times in this form. The developers of MacSpeech Dictate, now Dragon Dictate, need to do a weekly podcast of video tutorials on how to use the program. Users should not have to pay to get tutoring in order to learn the tips and tricks for how to best use this program. Users need to see someone was effectively using speech recognition and dictation with this or any similar program. Dragon Dictate is a powerful as Nuance claims, then it shouldn't be a problem for the company to produce at minimum, 15 min. tutorial videos.
ayla
Member
I agree with the above - having struggled with MacSpeech for a few months, six months ago i broke down, bought a Windows computer, and switched to NaturallySpeaking. I have not regretted the move for an instant. Its just not worth the hassle - DNS just works, and has none of the glitchy-ness of Macspeech. I think they simply wanted to produce a version of Macspeech that included the DNS 11 engine ... and while that's nice, the recognition engine was the best part about Macspeech in the first place - it hardly needed improving. Notice it looks like a DNS product, but they didn't go as far as actually call it DNS.
thomasw
Member
As I wrote in a similar thread about the new upgrade, it doesn't look like it's ready for primetime. Thanks for all the comments.
I'll wait to upgrade until *after* DNS actually comes to the Mac.
Calistoga
Member
Anyone know if Dragon Dictate works with Skype?
asdub
Member
I would like to inform Nuance and users that after installation of Dragon Dictate for Mac (upgrade from Mac speech version 1.5.9) which I downloaded – it is working superbly! I have had no problems whatsoever with the installation and use. My older profiles were upgraded (this takes some time – please be patient!) And after the usual training, I was back up and running without any problems. I have certainly noted an increase in accuracy and the ability to speak faster without mistakes being made - using both normal USB headset and wireless Calisto. I am extremely happy and really cannot wait for this package to be further improved through upgrades. I was experiencing some problems, for example, with vocabulary training, prior to the upgrade. However, all of my past problems seemed to have now resolved.
I have used Dragon Dictate in a number of applications with success: the notepad, Microsoft entourage, Microsoft Word and with Skype chats. So far, I have not noted any problems.
My Mac specs are as follows:
Model Name: iMac
Model Identifier: iMac8,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 3.06 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 6 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz
May I wish you all luck with the new dictate. May I also congratulate Nuance! Keep up the good work and I look forward to continued improvements (and an upgrade of Dictate legal - but with a UK spelling version!)
Yakker
Member
asdub;
Thank you for your detailed [!] positive report on the Dragon Dictate upgrade! I recognize that the many reports of problems are very important, even if painful to read, and I can only hope they all lead to satisfactory resolutions for the people who have reported them.
Still, your positive report is a kind of "suspicions confirmed" thing: "Dang, some people are actually happy with the upgrade! Maybe even more than one!" ;-)
But just to double-check, I'm curious whether you are now finding no final-letter-in-word reversal problems. Care to comment?
Thanks;
Ray
JLL
Member
Hello everybody,
I found out about the upgrade last week and hastened to download and install it. So far, I have to count myself among those who are happy. I almost feel guilty!
To be honest, I was happy with the accuracy and possibilities for customization of MacSpeech 1.5. What makes the upgrade worthwhile is the possibility of working with any microphone, even my laptop's inbuilt microphone. I am dictating this post using the inbuilt microphone on a MacBook Pro with no apparent degradation in performance. I also have a pair of Bose noise canceling headphones for which I found an alternative cable with a microphone, and I like to carry those around with me. I'm happy that I can use those to dictate with now. The microphone I bought from MacSpeech is good but cumbersome. Now I can use this program in any quiet place without worrying whether I have a suitable microphone.
I continue to dictate almost exclusively into the notepad, although I do sometimes use Word.
Best wishes,
Jonathan
asdub
Member
Dear Yakker,
I have not experienced any "no final-letter-in-word reversal". However, I have experienced problems in word when I use the new commands "Bold that" and "Italicize that". When these commands are used in word - the cursor seems to have a little "hissy fit" and the text begins to act up!
The use of these commands in Note Pad - are problem free.
I am also trying to use the Calisto headset alot more - and it seems excellent. I found it initially a little slow to respond - however, after training with 2 stories and some dictation - it is working well.
Good luck with it!
Yakker
Member
asdub,
I have the sam experience as you with NotePad. I might mention that so far TextEdit has been reliable as well.
I am also pretty pleased with Calisto's accuracy. But learning to turn it on and off, remembering to recharge it but remove it from the charging cable when putting my iMac to sleep, and moving myself around a little when it starts delivering static to my ear has somewhat sullied the experience. But I shall adjust. . . ;-)
By the way: anyone else had trouble with static when using Calisto? Perhaps it's just my own setup. It would be nice to know if that's the case. Maybe I could figure out something to do about it then.
Ray
mtift
Member
Yakkar, I hear loud static occasionally with the Calisto, as well as a continuous hiss. When my wife and kids are not in the house, I usually use the internal microphone instead so I do not have to deal with the charging, USB stick, etc. But I have found the internal microphone picks up a lot of ambient noise.
asdub
Member
Dear Ray (yakker),
In relation to the static you mention when using Calisto, I also experience this, however, it is a continuous very light static noise. It is interspersed frequently with a light clicking sound. This has been present since I bought the Calisto headset. Truth be told, I don't like this continuous noise. However, I have gotten used to it to the point that it no longer really annoys me. It is working well with Dragon dictate. I intend to continue training with the headset to ensure improved accuracy as it is very handy to be hands-free. However, the USB headset does seem overall faster and more accurate (I have however used that a lot more).
On another point in relation to the Calisto headset: the hardware is of poor quality. The clip round the ear broke where the swivel joint is. MacSpeech were very good in their service and replaced the headset. However, for the price paid I was very disappointed in the overall package. I would have thought that the headset would have had a proper box and holder of some sort, especially as it is so fragile.
Asdub
billyjp
Member
I can't find my instructions for the Calisto. Does anyone know if there's an electronic version of the documentation?
Cdownunder
Member
On "The Golden Rule" and Purge Cache.
I do break the Golden Rule and mix dictation with typing.
I find I can do this fine, provided I use the Purge Cache command and understand what the issue is behind the "golden rule".
The key is, dictate all you like, correct by keyboard all you like, just do not go back and edit using voice commands until you have refreshed with a "purge cache" command so that Dictate has a refresh of all text in its memory, including what you have entered manually.
That is why I love the "purge cache" command.
I do this in Word, Textedit, MacJournal. All fine my end.
This approach involves a certain style of use of Dictate. One gets into a certain style or mode of use, which takes a little time. So at first this approach may not work for others until you develop the consistent patterns of habit with this approach. Frequent (or perhaps "timely" is the better word) issueing of the verbal commmand "purge cache" and only at the completion of a sentence and full stop. (Reason: Purge cache command will assume the next spoken word is the beginning of a new sentence and hence will capitalise the first letter of the first word eg Word.)
This approach works well for me.
On numerals:
Also I find I can have numbers in numerals or words, with practice of the right word commands.
I admit it takes time to get this down in your head, so that you come to use them without thinking. Again, it comes down to developing a style of use. So on this issue, I had to go back and read the manual on the details of these caps and numeral commands and how they worked.
On performance:
iListen to Dictate (with the first change from Phillips speach engine to DNS) was a critical improvement in speech recognition making Dictate useful as a productivity tool.
I am interested to see if there is any further reports of significant improved accuracy with Dictate 2.0. If there is another distinct leap in performance in recognition accuracy as one poster in this section has offered, I may well do so, though it is a pain it only works on OSX 10.6.2 upwards. That means another OS X upgrade, and the time to sort out some incompatibilities of old but good'un, much loved and used software. (I love mathpad).
Which brings me to another question: Why is that??? 10.6.2 upwards only. This leads me to wonder if Dictate 2.0 is really a gain in better speech engine performance, or just more efficient processing on full 64 bit with OSX 10.6???
Blast from the past:
iListen was not useful as a productivity tool - oh how Macspeech lied to me for years that the problem was my end .. 3 laptop and OS upgrades, mics .... in the end I entered a heavy phase of objective rigorous testing of iListen with all possible performance affecting variables.
I sent just one graph of the results of 200 plus hours of careful testing of iListen performance to show it was the limitations of the program and phillips speech engine. I suggested to Macspeech if they did not change the speech engine they would fail as a company as it was never going to work well enough to be broadly taken up as a productivity tool - and hey presto - 6 months later and they changed the speech engine to DNS - yahoo for that!
You would think with that amount of dedicated effort, and cost my end, Macspeech would offer me a free upgrade, but no .. They just ceased to respond to any of my emails after I sent then my results. Silence. I was the messenger not the enemy!
Anyway, Dictate is better than iListen, and lets see with Dictate 2.0. If recognition performance is better, I can work with the rest of the set up. I just want it to work re recognition accuracy, so I can speak freely normally with out having to watch for errors, and it all comes out in text..... so that it is free thinking into typed text. Its close, but not there yet. This need a consistent recognition accuracy of better than 99.8%.
Thanks for all the other posts.
Cameron Downunder.
PS I am mindful of posts that pose as users but are really macspeech promotions. How do you know? You do not. In the past I have followed up some people with direct email exchange to check the independence of comments.
Yakker
Member
billyjp:
I think you'll find a downloadable pdf for the Calisto in the lower right-hand corner of this page:
http://www.macspeech.com/pages.php?pID=159
There may also be a useful addendum at:
http://www.plantronics.com/media/media_resources/literature/user_guides/calistopro_mac_ug_en.pdf
HTH
Ray
Yakker
Member
Cameron downunder;
Though I have extended my sincere thanks to several people for their suggestions about caching and purging documents, I must say that I have found your post to be especially clear and coherent. I'm very grateful that you took the trouble to compose it and post it. It has been most helpful. Many thanks!
Ray
Tris
Member
Cameron downunder,
Thank you very much for your detailed response. One thing that caught my attention was that you say that you have no problem having numbers written out as words of but you don't describe the method you use. The only way I have found to write out a number is to use the spelling mode and spell out the numbers letter by letter. This becomes very cumbersome for a number like $10,432,561. Please let me know if you have found a simpler solution.
Thanks
Cdownunder
Member
Yakker/Ray. Thank you for your appreciation. Most warmly received. Thanks.
Tris, Will need to follow up on this. Perhaps I have not been in the situation were I want long numbers to be written in English. So perhaps I have not fully understood the specific instance of the issue you have raised. So let me check this out when I have Dictate 1.5 out, and do a little checking. Not able to do just now though. Hope to get back to you within a week.
Thanks again all.
Cameron Downunder.
delawaregeorge
Member
I have been using speech to text software on the Macintosh since the days of Power Secretary. I was a MacSpeech “T-shirt founder.”
I found that the original MacSpeech programs that used the Philips voice-recognition engine were virtually unusable with about 90% accuracy. I found that the first port to the DNS speech recognition engine in Dictate was a remarkable improvement.
I am finding this latest version absolutely outstanding relative to accuracy and speed compared with the last version. I am using a Plantronics microphone, and I make sure that the microphone placement is just slightly below my lower lip, so I don't get too many extraneous noises. Also, I found that my accuracy improved when I removed the foam breath-noise shield from the end of the microphone.
Tris
Member
Cameron,
Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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